UBI will be disastrous if implemented. Long-term idleness, which is what UBI enables, the explicit reason that UBI exists, is disastrous to the human spirit, and it will inevitable reduce a large fraction of the population to a near sub-human existence.
My preferred solution to the problem (if it is a problem) is a guaranteed jobs program.
I am somewhat inclined to agree with the second sentence, not quite as much with the first. I have a fair amount of hope for such a project, just not very much optimism.Â
(FALC and UBI-plus-heavy-automation combination worries me much more)
What about a guaranteed capital program? Jobs mitigate some of the long-term idleness issues but hardly attack the source.Â
Makework feels to me like it might not be that much better than idleness, in that it teaches you, at least on a system-1 level, that work isn’t something that’s *really necessary*, and that it’s just a pointless obligation imposed by authority figures.
Seconded, and maybe it doesn’t even go far enough. Make-work is awful. I can’t overemphasize how much resentment is generated when you’re forced to bust your ass for work that you know for a fact has no point. And to be honest, since a lot of labor in our current economy, even for the employed, is bullshit make-work and the malaise is already obvious, I’m confused as to how someone could think it’s the solution.
At least in idleness you could be playing video games. (I’ve seen the hypothesis floating around that, in utter seriousness, video games are the other half of the UBI puzzle. I don’t know if I believe it, but it’s a delightfully subversive take.)
“idleness” can also involve creating works of beauty that might not be financially sustainable in the current economic environment.
think of all the scientific discoveries and works of art and literature created by aristocrats who were technically “idle”, coasting on inherited wealth.
sure, some people may choose to spend their lives cock fighting or whatever instead, but so what.
“Idleness” can involve creating works of beauty, but honestly argumate, how many people would do that? “Somebody could paint the Mona Lisa in their UBI time” is not a serious argument, because only a tiny, tiny fraction of the population has the inclination and the skills to do that.
The people who already live entirely on gov’t support, what do they do? Does it look like “scientific discovery and works of art and literature”? Do you want to dramatically expand the number of people living under those conditions?
better round them up and send them to the sugar plantations then, for their own good
Who the hell are these fucking super villains who think idleness is bad? Fuck off and head down to the salt mines if you think hard labor is so soul-nourishing. You’ve got no business forcing it on everyone else.
there’s nothing “super” about these villains
Hey, @mailadreapta, you know what reduces people to a subhuman existence? Working fourteen hours a day. Being abused by their boss and just taking it because the alternative is starvation. Having to beg for scraps.
I think mailadreapta may be the unicorn: The actually lazy person.
When evaluating social policies, people assume other people act the way they would act. The people who think people would be lazy and do nothing are the people who would immediately stop and do nothing the moment they had subsistence-level supports, rather than seeking something to do.
Also, the point about UBI is… It’s enough to live on. It’s not necessarily enough for a comfortable life. Virtually everyone I know would trade at least some hours of time for, say, money for video games or something.
But all but one or two of them would make things. If you wouldn’t, mailadreapta, that is your fucking problem, please stop blaming everyone else for a character flaw you are projecting onto them. Find something you care about enough that you’d do it even if you didn’t have to, and grow the fuck up.
Tag: universal basic income
Here, then, is the case for a [universal basic income], as I see it. For many — perhaps even for most — work brings both intrinsic and extrinsic rewards. For those who can work, and can find jobs, a UBI isn’t likely to lure them into indolence. Hell, it may even increase their incentive to work, both because they’ll achieve a higher standard of living and because employers will have to offer better pay and better conditions to attract workers. (As Dylan Matthews notes here, past experiments with basic incomes have shown little effect on work incentives.)
But for those who can’t work or can’t find jobs — and there are millions of these people, and our country has nothing even approaching an answer for them now — a UBI could be a boon, so long as relying on a UBI for income is respected. It could give them the freedom to turn their passions into their vocations — they could be an artist, or a writer, or a Reddit commenter, or a competitive video gamer, even if they don’t make much or any money from those pursuits.
Instead of their social status being in the hands of employers with no use for them, it’s in their hands, and they’ll have plenty of incentive to figure out a way to present themselves as high status.
I want to talk about Universal Basic Income for a little bit, because I’m always sad it’s not talked about in national politics
If you don’t know,Â
universal basic income is a form of social security system in which all citizens or residents of a country regularly receive an unconditional sum of money, either from a government or some other public institution, in addition to any income received from elsewhere. (Imagine if you will, if the government simply gave every citizen over the age of 18 $35,000 every year. Enough money to cover the BASIC NEEDS of a person.) The free market and labor market still exist, people still work for money, people still buy stuff with money.Â
Some links if you are curious as to how this works:
The wikipedia article on Basic Income.
Thinking Utopian: How about a universal basic income?
The Economic Case for a Universal Basic Income (Part 1 of a series)
How Universal Basic Income Will Save Us From the Robot UprisingÂ
I really like this for a couple of reasons as an economic policy. I mean, there are the obvious benefits in that it is more efficient than our current mishmash of welfare programs, and it basically makes welfare fraud impossible (not that I’m even that worried about welfare fraud honestly. But some people are. So there ya go.)
But it’s also just a really efficient way to address SO MANY OTHER problems at once.Â
Guaranteed paid parental leave? Done.
LGBT+ Homelessness? Done.Â
Childhood hunger? Done.Â
Unemployment? Done.Â
People losing their jobs to automation and the shifting workforce needing less and less human labor to function? Done.Â
Like, it’s a really simple, straight forward, 21st century solution to so many problems. Any problem that stems from “People are living in poverty or near poverty and are completely reliant on their employer to not starve to death”- this fixes it.Â
It strengthens an employee’s bargaining power in labor negotiations which helps create a more robust labor market.
It gives artists, musicians, entrepreneurs, inventors, community leaders, homemakers, caretakers, etc. the ability to provide their vital services to their communities without having to worry about how to make ends meet.
It’s a good idea and we should start moving towards it as a country.
I think it’s potential to validate and support people who don’t do traditionally profitable labor is super important
just moving along like everyone else 