if you really think it is advancing the cause of antiracism or trans advocacy or whatever by reblogging posts that are like GUESS THIS GUY SPILLED THE TEA or “you should really reblog this” or “nobody is holding people responsible for ____” and TV comedy people saying quirky things about bigots and on and on and on. like you recognize what sort of writing style i’m talking about right?
if you are considering reblogging one of these things like i implore you to ask yourself “what am i doing this for.” what purpose does it serve? if your answer is something like, “because I have to do everything I can and ~listen to minorities~ because i need to ~unlearn my problematic tendencies~ and those oppressors need to be given what for! [by reblogging a tumblr post that most of them in all likelihood will never see]” then i guarantee you probably do not need to reblog that post!
like think about it. here is the thing. you cannot ever neutrally “learn and listen to marginalized people”. like yes it is good to listen to people and let people speak about things oppressing them but ultimately no matter what position you take you are going to be favoring some position that some people in the group may disagree with! identity groups are not monoliths, but that is the kind of thinking that SJ shit traps people into
this kind of thinking in turn encourages people, both marginalized and “allies” alike (and really almost everyone falls into both categories depending on the situation) to amplify and rebroadcast pain and outrage, because that’s the most unambiguous way to demonstrate awareness of peoples’ suffering
but like. the flip side to this is that everyone is constantly being inundated with pain and outrage. the affected group has to deal with pain on their dashboard 24/7 and other people are bombarded with guilt trippy or less overt “LISTEN HERE. YOU MIGHT BE A BIGOT IF YOU THINK…” posts whose primary effect is not to inspire real action, solidarity or working toward a better future but rather mostly encourages people to self flagellate over perceived moral failing
the internet is a reverse monkeys-on-typewriters things where we learn that if we get enough people typing coherent phrases, eventually many will produce incomprehensible bullshit
I don’t really understand getting mad at people for mixing up korean, chinese, and japanese
Like, look at them together
見る한국어中国死ね我要吃你マンコ형사我有大鸡巴
and tell me they don’t look similar lol
they don’t look similar
This post’s notes are made of:
• Tumblr People™ trying to prove they’re not racists by explaining why and how these alphabets don’t look similar at all even if they don’t understand shit of it; • People with historical and linguistic knowledge arguing that while korean is indeed a different looking alphabet, China and Japan have a history of borrowed symbols and trade enough that some of it’s alphabets are indeed similar to an untrained eye – after all, not everyone has the same education and access to information to know how to differentiate it, aaaannd, best of all:
• Actual chinese, korean and japanese speakers pointing out that OP just wrote “i have a big dick” and variations.
I wonder where the break happened that such wide swaths of younger fans don’t grasp fandom things that used to be unspoken understandings. That fic readers are expected to know fiction from reality, that views expressed in fic are not necessarily those of the author, that the labels, tags and warnings on various kinkfics are also the indication that they were created for titillation and not much more, please use responsibly as per all pornography. The ‘problem’ isn’t that so-called ‘problematic’ fic exists but that some of the audience is being stupid, irresponsible, at worst criminal, at best not old enough to be in the audience to begin with. And that’s on the consumer, not the author who told you via labels, tags, ratings, warnings and venues what their fic was about and what it was for.
I can’t stress enough how important this post is
This post troubles me because I feel like it misses a lot of the nuance of the situation.
No, not everyone who reads your rapefic or whatever is going to go out and rape someone, but your average joe isn’t the person to be worried about. Rapists, paedophiles, abusers, people who would coerce their family members into incest, etc etc etc use the internet. Their victims use the internet. Those who could be their victims use the internet. And they’ll see what you write. Or draw, or voice act, or whatever else. No, it’s not a guarantee, but it’s a very, very real possibility, and one you have to take into account when writing. If it wasn’t a real problem, I wouldn’t know three victims of it.
The issue is not that you should never explore dark subjects ever or you’re a nasty evil badman. The issue is how you explore them. You’re probably not a rapist for writing a rape fic – but how will a real rapist feel about how you wrote it? Will they feel like what they did is okay? Will they feel like it was sexy? How about a victim of rape? Will they feel like what happened to them didn’t matter? Will they feel like their trauma is nonsense, because they should’ve enjoyed it? Will they be able to use your fic to self harm? Do you really want people feeling this way about something you made?
The responsibility doesn’t entirely lie on you, no. But as a creator, you have a lot of influence, and you need to be careful and considerate of other people.
Fiction is not reality, but it certainly has an effect on it. Hasn’t a work of fiction ever made you feel something? Why would women and LGBT people and disabled people constantly be crying for representation in fiction if it was meaningless?
Fiction affects each individual’s reality.
I think it’s important to consider what effect yours will have.
The ‘nuance’ you think is there does not exist. Writers,
artists, creators of any sort, are NOT responsible for what other people choose
to do, period. People of a certain age and level of reason are expected to be
something other than ‘monkey see, monkey do’ about the arts and life in general.
Anybody else shouldn’t be allowed to consume certain media without supervision,
accompanying education and in some case, maybe not at all. That’s the job of
parents and guardians, not random strangers on the internet with their own row
to hoe.
You say you know three victims. The crimes are still the perp’s fault.
Writing didn’t make them do what they did any more than videogames cause school
shootings. To place blame on the media they consumed, to place blame on the
creators of that media, is a tired, old, long-disproven argument, and one that absolves
criminals of their culpability for their crimes. You’d let perps get away with
it, or get reduced sentences, because you’re claiming it’s actually the fic
that’s to blame.What do you want to do, lock the writers up too?
One of the purposes of fiction literally IS to explore all
angles of an issue safely, and that includes perspectives that are not
desirable in real life, or that can make some individuals personally
uncomfortable. It’s a societal release valve, and an acknowledgement of fears.
Sometimes those fears get processed in strange ways, there are people who get
turned on by balloons popping, for crying out loud. Creators have a
responsibility to create. As a courtesy in fandom, we tag, label and warn
almost to excess. That way your hypothetical victim can avoid things they don’t
want to see, things that by the way, may just as easily have been created by
another victim who is dealing with their issues by a different and equally
valid route.
Fan creators also don’t have anywhere near the influence of
mainstream media, where you don’t even get half the warnings fandom will give
you. Media aims to make you feel, but you are responsible for what you do, and
that includes clicking on fics that told you up front there were things inside that would make you uncomfortable. Learn yourself, know yourself, manage yourself. Writers and artists aren’t here to be your babysitter.
And finally, people are definitely not rapists for writing
rape fic, because what makes a person a rapist is actually committing rape. It’s
not rocket science.
Ah, sorry about that last statement, I must’ve been unclear. Of course you’re not a rapist just for writing rape fic. I was underexaggerating, because I have seen arguments against this on the sillier side of things that seem to assume writing things like rape is equatable to committing them.
Of course the crimes are the perpetrator’s fault, and not the author’s. Sorry if I was unclear, again, but I have to reiterate: your average person reading a dark fic will walk away unaffected. Nobody who reads about some guy murdering a bunch of people is going to go on a killing spree themself!
The problem lies in the fact that people who have already committed crimes, or dream of doing so, will read dark fics. They’ll see what they’ve done portrayed like it’s sexy. Like it’s good. And they’ll feel good about it. They’ll feel like it wasn’t a big deal, and everyone else is wrong, and they’re not a bad person. Or, if they were a victim, they might feel like it’s stupid to be so torn up about it. They’ll feel like what their sibling or parent or datemate or auncle or whatever else tries to do to them isn’t so bad. Of course that abuser is entirely to blame. It was their choice to use that writing for something so horrible. The writing is not the root cause of the problem. But it does enable it. Why would you want to risk someone like that feeling good because of something you wrote? Death of the author and all. Your intentions don’t matter. It’s how someone used what you wrote that makes people suffer.
I never asked the victims I know too much about what happened to them, but one pretty readily volunteered that their abuser, their older sister, coerced them into sex by normalising it with incest fics. They were traumatised by it. Real people are traumatised by these things. The fact remains that despite everything, these victims are far from hypothetical.
It’s not the authors’ fault that someone so evil would use their writing like that. I’d like to believe that the people who write this stuff do so with only the best of intentions. Who could guess that something they wrote would be used for something so awful? The trouble is that it happens. It happens, and people suffer, and we as writers can do something to protect them.
I don’t think writing about dark themes like these should be banned! I know plenty of victims use them to vent and process their own trauma. I just think that we should bear in mind that we as writers have an influence over people, whether they are victims or abusers. It might not be a lot. But it’s there. And there’s nothing stopping us from thinking very, very hard about how we make that influence as good as possible.
I think I’d disagree that writers of derivative fiction have less influence than the mainstream, too. How many people do you know who read pretty much nothing but fic nowadays because mainstream fiction doesn’t have what they want? We influence a different group, to be sure, but there’s still a lot of people in it.
Creators have a responsibility to create, to be sure! The trouble is in the distinction between what is reprehensible to someone personally, and what could actually hurt someone. Plenty of things gross me out. Plenty of those things I know better than to gripe about publically. “Don’t like, don’t read” has its place in fiction!
But that place is not everywhere. Fiction is a good way to explore pressing issues through different lenses. But some lenses – and I’m talking here about the glorification of these issues, nothing more! – have the capability to seriously hurt real people. Think how many cases of abusive relationships cropped up surrounding Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey!
All we need to do, I think, is carefully consider how we frame dark topics. Of course rapists and paedophiles and yada yada yada aren’t your intended audience. You don’t want to hurt anyone. But, on the off chance someone like that saw what you created, how would it make them feel? In the same way we carefully handle racism, sexism, transphobia, homophobia and similar issues that could hurt people in fiction, we should be careful about how we portray things like paedophilia and all the other stuff I’ve been talking about.
Just that people are considerate is all I’m asking.
Tagging is the consideration you are asking for. Education is the preventative measure you want. We give or show people the tools to protect themselves. We are not obligated to stop creating, ever.
I don’t think tagging is gonna stop my friend’s big sister from trying to screw them. It’s just going to make incest fics easier for her to find.
Education’s not gonna reach everyone. Often it doesn’t until it’s too late. That same friend still shipped incest until recently, because the realisation that it had hurt them never reached them.
I’m still not saying that these things shouldn’t be written about ever! We are not obligated to stop creating! But we are obligated to ensure we don’t create in a way that hurts people.
The fact that I stick pins in my arms isn’t the root of my problems either. Does that mean taking the pins away will do nothing to help me? Take away one of the tools. Make the box a little safer.
All I’m saying is that we need to be careful about glorifying these issues. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing else.
Telling people they should only write about certain issues one way is advocating censorship. That has a long history of not ending well. Education may not reach everyone, but it should. That is the angle you should be pushing, not censorship. Start directing people to Scarleteen or Go ask Alice or the freaking cops if you think they have real world concerns.
You’re not in a box. You’re in a big wide world full of needles, pins, scissors, knives, any number of things you can hurt yourself with, or other people could try to hurt you with, and in that world are people who have learned how to handle sharp objects safely, or like you, are still learning. And they can be taught. Because we’re not going back to ripping bread apart with bare hands just because you don’t know how to handle a bread knife.
Who decides what’s “glorifying” an issue, rather than “bringing awareness of how it works?” Random strangers on the internet?
i think if you use your brain for a little bit you can figure out when you’re saying “bad things are good actually” and when you’re saying “this thing happens but it’s bad”
glorification: ooh look how sexy and kinky this bad thing is isn’t it great and titillating
respectful handling of a dark issue: get a load of this bad thing. isn’t it horrible? here’s how it traumatises people.
usually the distinction is graphic descriptions of your Bad Thing, but not always. you can still glorify something without them, and you’re probably able to handle it respectfully despite describing it in detail. not sure how you might do that though. i don’t really wanna know either eheheh, that’s for people who wanna write that to figure out.
The only reasonable reply to that patronizing if supposedly well intentioned tirade:
i’ve yet to see one of the people saying that dark fics “glorify” things produce a single actual example of a fic which “glorifies” things and not be wrong.
so, yes, put me down for “if you use your brain for a little bit” being the key missing step.
what you see happening here is an example of the contagion superstition.
a rapist might read your fic! then your fic would become Unclean! clearly you must either refrain from writing, or perform some kind of cleansing ritual.
the contagion superstition is the origin of far more terrible practices than this. the purity rules in leviticus, for instance, that are used to this day to justify bigotry. caste systems in various parts of the world that create an untouchable underclass who can never rise above their birth caste because they’ve been ‘polluted’ by interacting with the unclean. isolating women during menstruation. genital mutilation. ostracizing and abusing and murdering rape victims.
considering the worldwide, history-long death toll that has resulted from the contagion superstition, it’s ironic how its proponents are convinced they have the moral high ground because of their performative revulsion.
I wonder where the break happened that such wide swaths of younger fans don’t grasp fandom things that used to be unspoken understandings. That fic readers are expected to know fiction from reality, that views expressed in fic are not necessarily those of the author, that the labels, tags and warnings on various kinkfics are also the indication that they were created for titillation and not much more, please use responsibly as per all pornography. The ‘problem’ isn’t that so-called ‘problematic’ fic exists but that some of the audience is being stupid, irresponsible, at worst criminal, at best not old enough to be in the audience to begin with. And that’s on the consumer, not the author who told you via labels, tags, ratings, warnings and venues what their fic was about and what it was for.
I can’t stress enough how important this post is
This post troubles me because I feel like it misses a lot of the nuance of the situation.
No, not everyone who reads your rapefic or whatever is going to go out and rape someone, but your average joe isn’t the person to be worried about. Rapists, paedophiles, abusers, people who would coerce their family members into incest, etc etc etc use the internet. Their victims use the internet. Those who could be their victims use the internet. And they’ll see what you write. Or draw, or voice act, or whatever else. No, it’s not a guarantee, but it’s a very, very real possibility, and one you have to take into account when writing. If it wasn’t a real problem, I wouldn’t know three victims of it.
The issue is not that you should never explore dark subjects ever or you’re a nasty evil badman. The issue is how you explore them. You’re probably not a rapist for writing a rape fic – but how will a real rapist feel about how you wrote it? Will they feel like what they did is okay? Will they feel like it was sexy? How about a victim of rape? Will they feel like what happened to them didn’t matter? Will they feel like their trauma is nonsense, because they should’ve enjoyed it? Will they be able to use your fic to self harm? Do you really want people feeling this way about something you made?
The responsibility doesn’t entirely lie on you, no. But as a creator, you have a lot of influence, and you need to be careful and considerate of other people.
Fiction is not reality, but it certainly has an effect on it. Hasn’t a work of fiction ever made you feel something? Why would women and LGBT people and disabled people constantly be crying for representation in fiction if it was meaningless?
Fiction affects each individual’s reality.
I think it’s important to consider what effect yours will have.
The ‘nuance’ you think is there does not exist. Writers,
artists, creators of any sort, are NOT responsible for what other people choose
to do, period. People of a certain age and level of reason are expected to be
something other than ‘monkey see, monkey do’ about the arts and life in general.
Anybody else shouldn’t be allowed to consume certain media without supervision,
accompanying education and in some case, maybe not at all. That’s the job of
parents and guardians, not random strangers on the internet with their own row
to hoe.
You say you know three victims. The crimes are still the perp’s fault.
Writing didn’t make them do what they did any more than videogames cause school
shootings. To place blame on the media they consumed, to place blame on the
creators of that media, is a tired, old, long-disproven argument, and one that absolves
criminals of their culpability for their crimes. You’d let perps get away with
it, or get reduced sentences, because you’re claiming it’s actually the fic
that’s to blame.What do you want to do, lock the writers up too?
One of the purposes of fiction literally IS to explore all
angles of an issue safely, and that includes perspectives that are not
desirable in real life, or that can make some individuals personally
uncomfortable. It’s a societal release valve, and an acknowledgement of fears.
Sometimes those fears get processed in strange ways, there are people who get
turned on by balloons popping, for crying out loud. Creators have a
responsibility to create. As a courtesy in fandom, we tag, label and warn
almost to excess. That way your hypothetical victim can avoid things they don’t
want to see, things that by the way, may just as easily have been created by
another victim who is dealing with their issues by a different and equally
valid route.
Fan creators also don’t have anywhere near the influence of
mainstream media, where you don’t even get half the warnings fandom will give
you. Media aims to make you feel, but you are responsible for what you do, and
that includes clicking on fics that told you up front there were things inside that would make you uncomfortable. Learn yourself, know yourself, manage yourself. Writers and artists aren’t here to be your babysitter.
And finally, people are definitely not rapists for writing
rape fic, because what makes a person a rapist is actually committing rape. It’s
not rocket science.
Ah, sorry about that last statement, I must’ve been unclear. Of course you’re not a rapist just for writing rape fic. I was underexaggerating, because I have seen arguments against this on the sillier side of things that seem to assume writing things like rape is equatable to committing them.
Of course the crimes are the perpetrator’s fault, and not the author’s. Sorry if I was unclear, again, but I have to reiterate: your average person reading a dark fic will walk away unaffected. Nobody who reads about some guy murdering a bunch of people is going to go on a killing spree themself!
The problem lies in the fact that people who have already committed crimes, or dream of doing so, will read dark fics. They’ll see what they’ve done portrayed like it’s sexy. Like it’s good. And they’ll feel good about it. They’ll feel like it wasn’t a big deal, and everyone else is wrong, and they’re not a bad person. Or, if they were a victim, they might feel like it’s stupid to be so torn up about it. They’ll feel like what their sibling or parent or datemate or auncle or whatever else tries to do to them isn’t so bad. Of course that abuser is entirely to blame. It was their choice to use that writing for something so horrible. The writing is not the root cause of the problem. But it does enable it. Why would you want to risk someone like that feeling good because of something you wrote? Death of the author and all. Your intentions don’t matter. It’s how someone used what you wrote that makes people suffer.
I never asked the victims I know too much about what happened to them, but one pretty readily volunteered that their abuser, their older sister, coerced them into sex by normalising it with incest fics. They were traumatised by it. Real people are traumatised by these things. The fact remains that despite everything, these victims are far from hypothetical.
It’s not the authors’ fault that someone so evil would use their writing like that. I’d like to believe that the people who write this stuff do so with only the best of intentions. Who could guess that something they wrote would be used for something so awful? The trouble is that it happens. It happens, and people suffer, and we as writers can do something to protect them.
I don’t think writing about dark themes like these should be banned! I know plenty of victims use them to vent and process their own trauma. I just think that we should bear in mind that we as writers have an influence over people, whether they are victims or abusers. It might not be a lot. But it’s there. And there’s nothing stopping us from thinking very, very hard about how we make that influence as good as possible.
I think I’d disagree that writers of derivative fiction have less influence than the mainstream, too. How many people do you know who read pretty much nothing but fic nowadays because mainstream fiction doesn’t have what they want? We influence a different group, to be sure, but there’s still a lot of people in it.
Creators have a responsibility to create, to be sure! The trouble is in the distinction between what is reprehensible to someone personally, and what could actually hurt someone. Plenty of things gross me out. Plenty of those things I know better than to gripe about publically. “Don’t like, don’t read” has its place in fiction!
But that place is not everywhere. Fiction is a good way to explore pressing issues through different lenses. But some lenses – and I’m talking here about the glorification of these issues, nothing more! – have the capability to seriously hurt real people. Think how many cases of abusive relationships cropped up surrounding Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey!
All we need to do, I think, is carefully consider how we frame dark topics. Of course rapists and paedophiles and yada yada yada aren’t your intended audience. You don’t want to hurt anyone. But, on the off chance someone like that saw what you created, how would it make them feel? In the same way we carefully handle racism, sexism, transphobia, homophobia and similar issues that could hurt people in fiction, we should be careful about how we portray things like paedophilia and all the other stuff I’ve been talking about.
Just that people are considerate is all I’m asking.
Tagging is the consideration you are asking for. Education is the preventative measure you want. We give or show people the tools to protect themselves. We are not obligated to stop creating, ever.
I don’t think tagging is gonna stop my friend’s big sister from trying to screw them. It’s just going to make incest fics easier for her to find.
Education’s not gonna reach everyone. Often it doesn’t until it’s too late. That same friend still shipped incest until recently, because the realisation that it had hurt them never reached them.
I’m still not saying that these things shouldn’t be written about ever! We are not obligated to stop creating! But we are obligated to ensure we don’t create in a way that hurts people.
The fact that I stick pins in my arms isn’t the root of my problems either. Does that mean taking the pins away will do nothing to help me? Take away one of the tools. Make the box a little safer.
All I’m saying is that we need to be careful about glorifying these issues. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing else.
Telling people they should only write about certain issues one way is advocating censorship. That has a long history of not ending well. Education may not reach everyone, but it should. That is the angle you should be pushing, not censorship. Start directing people to Scarleteen or Go ask Alice or the freaking cops if you think they have real world concerns.
You’re not in a box. You’re in a big wide world full of needles, pins, scissors, knives, any number of things you can hurt yourself with, or other people could try to hurt you with, and in that world are people who have learned how to handle sharp objects safely, or like you, are still learning. And they can be taught. Because we’re not going back to ripping bread apart with bare hands just because you don’t know how to handle a bread knife.
Who decides what’s “glorifying” an issue, rather than “bringing awareness of how it works?” Random strangers on the internet?
i think if you use your brain for a little bit you can figure out when you’re saying “bad things are good actually” and when you’re saying “this thing happens but it’s bad”
glorification: ooh look how sexy and kinky this bad thing is isn’t it great and titillating
respectful handling of a dark issue: get a load of this bad thing. isn’t it horrible? here’s how it traumatises people.
usually the distinction is graphic descriptions of your Bad Thing, but not always. you can still glorify something without them, and you’re probably able to handle it respectfully despite describing it in detail. not sure how you might do that though. i don’t really wanna know either eheheh, that’s for people who wanna write that to figure out.
The only reasonable reply to that patronizing if supposedly well intentioned tirade:
i’ve yet to see one of the people saying that dark fics “glorify” things produce a single actual example of a fic which “glorifies” things and not be wrong.
so, yes, put me down for “if you use your brain for a little bit” being the key missing step.
me, an aged monarch lounging on my fur-strewn throne, gesturing for my servant to bring me my monacle: Bring them here! Bring them here, I say. Let me look at them.
guards: *drag the unwitting blog before me*
me, peering intently at the new blog and poking them with my scepter: Is this a real person? Hmm? What have you to say for yourself? What are your fandoms? Your interests? Speak up, these old ears aren’t what they used to be.
guards, tentatively: they do seem to be a real person, sire. We found them in possession of several memes and a fandom rant.
me, subsiding back into my sumptuous furs and waving them away: most extraordinary. It has been an age since there was a real person, but just as well, the dungeons have been overflowing with those tacky pornbots. This newcomer may remain in my domain. Make them welcome. And fetch me a quill! I feel a ficlet coming on…
baffling how much of this site is just conservative protestantism with a gay hat
you know what i’m in just enough of a bad mood that i’m ready to nail my grievances to the church door so let’s fucking go
black and white morality wherein anyone who doesn’t believe/think/live exactly as I do is a dirty sinner Problematic and probably a predatory monster
everyone is a sinnerProblematic but true believerspeople who activist the right way according to my worldview are still better than everyone else, and I will act in accordance to this belief in my own superiority to let everyone else know I’m better than them because I found Jesusam the most woke
casual and fucking omnipresent equations of womanhood with softness/goodness/purity/nurturing to remind every woman who isn’t/doesn’t want to be any of those things that they’re doing it wrong
aggressive desexualization (particularly of women’s sexuality, to the point where it may as well not exist at all) accompanied by pastels [not a criticism directed ace ppl having a right to sex-free content and spaces but specifically targeted at a wider problem resulting from the previous point]
YOU’RE VALID AND JESUS LOVES YOU and neither of these platitudes achieves a goddamn thing
historical context is for people who care about nuance and we don’t have time for either (see: black and white morality)
lots of slogans and quotes and nice little soundbites to memorize but does anybody actually study the source material with a critical eye to make their own informed analysis
the answer is no
I’ve been to bible study groups don’t @ me I know what the fuck I’m talking about
Good Christians™ Nice Gays™
don’t fraternize with/let themselves be influenced by non-Christians those terrible queers
all the media one consumes must be ideologically pure or it will surely harm the children
it is Our Sacred Duty to protect the children from Everything, thus ensuring their innocence/purity/etc until such time as they are idk probably 25 years old
literally just “think of the children” moral panic y’all can fuckin miss me with that
people who don’t conform to the dominant thinking WILL be excommunicated/driven from the social group, and any wrong treatment they suffer will be seen as a justified consequence of their wrong thinking
I Saw Goody Proctor With The Devil And She Had A Bad Steven Universe Headcanon
Thank you for breaking it down like that because so many of us have been saying it but to see a play by play breakdown comparison is just…Thank you.
sipping tea and judging people as a group bonding activity
oh, man, speaking as a queer Christian who gets regular tumblr flashbacks to my childhood in the Bible Belt, YES
-belief that small snippets of text can be analyzed out context to understand the whole work/ judge the whole person -Desire for moral choices to be easy/ black-and-white leads to belief that it is possible to find a one-size-fits all answer to every situation -Literal, rather than literary analysis, with weird fixation on etymological roots that have nothing to do with source material -Belief that there is “one true interpretation” that is self-evident and will be understood by everyone encountering the same material regardless of background -Overwhelming, internalized sense of culpability for other people’s actions/integrity/souls -Overwhelming, internalized sense of personal guilt -Pressure to evangelize aggressively -Tendency to value broad ideals before individual needs -Hostility towards coexistence/tolerance/neutrality -Hostility towards lack of consensus in viewpoint -Knowledge as contamination -Guilt/contamination by proximity -Fixation on the sexual as uniquely dirty/sinful -Belief in “thought crimes” -Argumentation via appeal to higher authority/feelings of revulsion rather than internal, verbalizeable logic -“conversations” that are actually stealth soapboxes because one side isn’t actually interested in listening -“polite requests” that are actually commands because “no” is not considered an acceptable answer -in-group language -virtue-signaling and hostility towards the outgroup -gatekeeping -communities strongly built around the idea of being the world’s underdog -appropriation of other people’s persecution/victimization -treating the concept of oppression like a trophy -glorification/fetishization of victimhood
baffling how much of this site is just conservative protestantism with a gay hat
you know what i’m in just enough of a bad mood that i’m ready to nail my grievances to the church door so let’s fucking go
black and white morality wherein anyone who doesn’t believe/think/live exactly as I do is a dirty sinner Problematic and probably a predatory monster
everyone is a sinnerProblematic but true believerspeople who activist the right way according to my worldview are still better than everyone else, and I will act in accordance to this belief in my own superiority to let everyone else know I’m better than them because I found Jesusam the most woke
casual and fucking omnipresent equations of womanhood with softness/goodness/purity/nurturing to remind every woman who isn’t/doesn’t want to be any of those things that they’re doing it wrong
aggressive desexualization (particularly of women’s sexuality, to the point where it may as well not exist at all) accompanied by pastels [not a criticism directed ace ppl having a right to sex-free content and spaces but specifically targeted at a wider problem resulting from the previous point]
YOU’RE VALID AND JESUS LOVES YOU and neither of these platitudes achieves a goddamn thing
historical context is for people who care about nuance and we don’t have time for either (see: black and white morality)
lots of slogans and quotes and nice little soundbites to memorize but does anybody actually study the source material with a critical eye to make their own informed analysis
the answer is no
I’ve been to bible study groups don’t @ me I know what the fuck I’m talking about
Good Christians™ Nice Gays™
don’t fraternize with/let themselves be influenced by non-Christians those terrible queers
all the media one consumes must be ideologically pure or it will surely harm the children
it is Our Sacred Duty to protect the children from Everything, thus ensuring their innocence/purity/etc until such time as they are idk probably 25 years old
literally just “think of the children” moral panic y’all can fuckin miss me with that
people who don’t conform to the dominant thinking WILL be excommunicated/driven from the social group, and any wrong treatment they suffer will be seen as a justified consequence of their wrong thinking
I Saw Goody Proctor With The Devil And She Had A Bad Steven Universe Headcanon
Thank you for breaking it down like that because so many of us have been saying it but to see a play by play breakdown comparison is just…Thank you.
So there’s yet another post going around about adults vs teens in fandom, and it’s around 6k notes right now, the vast majority of the responses being from adults arguing the side that I am pretty much on. But there’s a subcurrent that’s bugging me.
OP asked that adults in fandoms with a majority of teens ‘be careful’ about how they interact with teens and about what content they produce and post. Needless to say, ‘be careful what you produce’ spurred a lot of backlash from adults who a) have had enough of being told they shouldn’t write/draw/make certain content because it’s morally impure/think of the children, b) are careful to tag and warn thoroughly so anyone who doesn’t want to see that content can avoid it, and c) have no idea what the teen-to-adult ratio is in their fandom–I mean, I’m not even sure how you’d figure that out, or why you’d need to.
OP’s post seemed to a lot of people to be asking adults to look out for kids–interpreted by the adults as monitoring/restricting the content that’s put out so kids can’t run across it. And yeah, that part we’ve seen before, and no, so long as you’re tagging correctly, you should be able to produce and post whatever you want.
But ‘be careful how you interact with teens’ isn’t the same thing. Some of the teens responding to the post weren’t talking about restricting content, they were talking about inappropriate ways adults had behaved towards them, things that had creeped them out. Content that had been sent to them after they’d explicitly said they didn’t want to see it, offline harassment and abuse at cons. Reasonable boundaries being trampled and ignored.
And it dismays me that as far as I could tell, the adults didn’t notice and therefore didn’t respond to those concerns. At least to say, ‘That sucks, I’m not here for that, I will respect your boundaries and not force attention or content on you that you don’t want’. (Not the same as not making that content at all, but tagging it correctly and not being a jerk.)
Granted, most of us adults on here aren’t creeps, and the ones who are aren’t going to read any of the reblogs of that post and go ‘oh, I guess I’ll stop doing creepy stuff now’. (‘Fill-in-the-blank don’t interact’ doesn’t work on the people it’s meant for, because it’s setting a boundary and they don’t care.) And there’s very little we can do, afaik, to protect anyone from jerks like that online, except to say that the block button is your friend. (In irl, in a situation like a con, it should really be different.)
But the least we can do, while standing by our hard-won rights to make whatever content we want, is to listen to these scared kids and say ‘I hear you. You have the right to set your own boundaries, to read/watch/avoid whatever you want, to interact or not with people older than you, and I support you in doing that.’
At least that might help us stop talking past each other.
Really, really good points.
Tumblr face-blinds you and it’s easy to forget that you’re talking to another human with a different context than yours, much less that you might be talking to a kid.
So, yeah. Be careful how you interact with teens.
And, just as a thought: when I was younger I had no idea how to disengage from a fight. And I would hurt the fuck out of myself because I could not back down when I was upset. It’s something I still struggle with. Like. A lot.
But I’m a grown up and I’m better at recognizing now when everybody involved in a conversation is triggered and when everything has gotten non-productive. I don’t actually need the last word. (I tell myself, still not really feeling it.)
Internet facilitates pile-ons like whoa. Learn how to disengage (or not engage) when the other person can’t.
Kids and teens cannot be relied on to set and defend their own boundaries. “Be careful” means self-regulate, so that you don’t trespass where the fences haven’t been put up yet.
It doesn’t mean don’t interact–it pretty much means DON’T PURSUE. In any sense. (Except maybe a judicious checkup here and there that one you know isn’t in any trouble and is okay.)
in a lot of ways, the reflexive ‘eww, grownups!’ reaction younger fans have for older fans is a good thing. it keeps them suspicious of adults motives, which is cool because they are vulnerable and the people who will be taking advantage of that vulnerability are manipulative creeps. wariness has to substitute for experience when you’re young.
unfortunately, manipulative creeps are gonna manipulatively creep, and one way a lot of them have found is to be yelling ‘eww, grownups!’ the loudest– except of course, they, the creep, are the good grownup, the one who knows all about bad the bad grownups are, and just wants to protect you from them? annnnd also isolate you so you’re easier to retraumatize and control.
ultimately i think it’s perfectly fair for teens to ask adults leave them alone to their own societies, but it’s not a perfect– or even all that great– solution for the fact that abusive creeps are going to invade kids’ spaces and ignore their boundaries no matter what.
of course, if any of this had an easy, simple solution, all us grownups would have been able to fix it back when we were teens ourselves. this is just something we’re all going to have to try to work out as best we can, which isn’t gonna be that great for anyone, unfortunately.
just moving along like everyone else 